Reformation Faith Today

for the recovery and propagation of the faith of the reformation

Systematic Theology with Robert Reymond

Dr. Robert L. Reymond authored A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith (Thomas Nelson, 1998; Second Edition-Revised & Expanded, 2001). This is simply an excellent one volume systematic. I have referred to it at various times and have never been let down.

I am now beginning to read through it, stopping along the way to post my thoughts. The preface to the first edition is good reading in its own right. Of course Reymond makes his case for yet another systematic, and he makes his case well. He gives three reasons for writing:

  1. Since the contents of this volume are largely comprised of lectures he gave at Covenant and Knox Theological seminaries, Dr. Reymond has succumbed to the hundreds of times his students have encouraged him to put his systematics lectures in print.
  2. Teachers in the Reformed tradition at the seminary level have had to rely largely on Louis Berkhof’s “revered (and trustworthy) but somewhat dated Systematic Theology for our one-volume English textbook.” Reymond adds that teachers then would often supplement Berkhof with readings from the Hodges (Charles and A.A.), B.B. Warfield, John Murray and G.C. Berkouwer.
  3. Primarily because he “love(s) the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and…the church for which he died.”

Dr. Reymond’s third reason for writing is worth exploring. He gives further explanation of the third reason (on xx and xxi) as:

But the church—his church—for many years now has been regaled, both in its seminary classrooms and from multitudes of its pulpits, with subbiblical portrayals of what the true gospel of God is. I refer to the Pelagian, semi-Pelagian, semi-semi-Pelagian, Arminian, apostate, and name-it-and-claim-it “gospels” which abound on every hand. To all these false “gospels” the Reformed faith is the only antidote. For me the Reformed faith is not simply a creed the church may relegate now or at some time to the dustbin of history; for me, its propagation is both a passion and a mission. Because I believe that the Reformed expression of the gospel is the eternal truth of the one living and true God, I believe that my representation of the gospel of Christ can serve as a corrective to these other “gospels,” which are really not the everlasting gospel at all. I hope, of course, that my effort here will contribute to the education of the church at a time when evidence exists all about us that the church has literally “lost her evangelical mind” and is floundering in anti-intellectualism and unbiblical thought. (emphasis in the original)

Is Dr. Reymond’s 1997 assessment of the church on target?

You can get a copy of this book (hardcover, 1210 pages) at Monergism Books or Westminster Bookstore for about $29 plus shipping. I highly encourage it.

Filed under: Books, Systematic Theology, Theology

30 Responses

  1. Nathan Reddick says:

    I received my copy of Reymond’s Systematics as a parting gift from the elders at the church I grew up in back in ‘99 right before I left for the army. It’s been the one extra-biblical volume that’s shaped my theology the most. I even took it with me to Afghanistan.

  2. I do wish Reymond was still teaching at Covenant. I was just skimming through it the other day at the school bookstore. I’ll have to pick up a copy.

    They had a huge discount on Herman Bavinck’s 4 volume Reformed Dogmatics that I recently purchased. I wonder how they compare to Reymond’s?

  3. Wes says:

    Both are great systematics, but Bavinck is in the Dutch Reformed tradition and Reymond in the American Presbyterian Reformed tradition, which makes their method of doing theology very different. But if you have appreciated Reymond, definitely add Bavinck to your library!

  4. RFT says:

    I love both works. Paul Helm has some interesting comments re systematics and current efforts to diminish the need for such as too “static.”

    According to Geerhardus Vos ’Biblical Theology is that branch of Exegetical Theology which deals with the process of the self-revelation of God deposited in the Bible.’ (Biblical Theology, 5) Intrinsic to this definition is the idea of process, of temporal sequence. So there will be trouble if we attempt to conflate Berkhofism with Vosism. A ‘dynamic’ or a ‘theodramatic’ approach to systematic theology conveys a strong desire to conflate them, to merge a concern for logical consistency and difference and implication with the flow of particular narratives. But it is doomed to failure.

    What happens is that in this effort to combine a narrative and a logical approach to theology the narrative approach invariably wins out. Stories are so much more fun than logical deductions and discriminations. The result is : it is impossible to combine the narrative and logical approaches in this way. It can’t be done. That’s why ‘narrative theology’ of whatever stripe can never take the place of systematic theology, nor revamp it, and current attempts to make the one supplant (or ‘energise’) the other are simply misguided, and dangerous in their consequences.

  5. RFT says:

    BTW, is Reymond off base to refer to “Pelagian, semi-Pelagian, semi-semi-Pelagian, Arminian, apostate, and name-it-and-claim-it “gospels”” as “false and other gospels?”

  6. Nathan Reddick says:

    no

  7. Danny says:

    No…as long as we don’t pronounce an anathema against those who don’t have 5 petals on their tulip…

  8. Danny says:

    *Clarification*
    I was speaking with specific reference to Arminian brothers and sisters.

  9. Drew Wilkins says:

    Interesting thoughts. I wonder though, what then are we to do with the narrative structure of Scripture? Should it be seen as only the container of what might be thought of as ‘the real meat’?

  10. RFT says:

    Drew, narrative has its place, but must be understood properly. Paul Helm is very helpful here. He says,

    Old theological conflicts frequently reappear dressed in a new outfit. So it is with narrative theologies and their theological output. Currently, in the guise of narrative theologies of one sort and another, we are presented with a version of the 19th century conflict between history and dogma in new dress. Not the denial by history of dogma, but its subtle and sometime not-so-subtle attenuation. This attenuation may not be intentional but it is real for all that. It’s a result of the constraints of the discipline of history.

    History is concerned with what is the case, with what has in fact happened, and history ought not to stray beyond that. All else is speculation. History attends to this world, with episodes and narratives of what, in the best judgement of the historians, based on the best available evidence, has in fact taken place. Not with what might have been, but with what was in fact. But a record of what was in fact, or what is in fact, is not strong enough for the purposes of constructing Christian dogma.

    and…

    So here’s one moral. If one’s theological resources are exclusively narrative or historical accounts of what happened, then as a matter of simple logic the theological results will be dogmatically impoverished or substandard. From what is the case it is logically impossible to conclude what must be the case. And Christian dogma embodies statements about what must be the case; statements about natures and essences and necessities. History alone does not give us dogma.

    I suggest you read Helm.

    Helm’s Deep at http://paulhelmsdeep.blogspot.com/

  11. Daniel says:

    Well said by Helm.

  12. Drew Wilkins says:

    I believe I understand the gist of the idea presented here, but what gives me pause is that it seems the majority (at least a vitally large percentage) of Scripture is in fact composed of narrative. Paul seemed to delight in examining these historical accounts in constructing his theologies (Genesis 12, for example). Helm’s statements are extremely applicable when interacting with history in general, but when we examine the large amounts of narrative and historical accounts contained within God’s Word then I think the rules change a little bit. As I understand it, our theology is the description of our relationship with God as we see it portrayed and explained within Scripture. A systematic approach to studying God’s word is a wonderful thing, but it rests essentially on the study of God’s story from Genesis to Revelation. When we look at Scripture as a story it begs us to take part in it, but when we see Scripture as merely truth statements then our relationship with God becomes simple facts to be memorized.
    As good ol’ B.B. Warfield states,
    “Biblical theology is not, then, a rival of systematics; it is not even a parallel product of the same body of facts provided by exegesis; it is the basis and source of Systematics. Systematic Theology is not a concatenation of a scattered theological data furnished by the exegetic process; it is a combination of the already concatenated data given it by Biblical Theology. [Warfield, 'The Idea of Systematic Theology' in Presbyterian and Reformed Review, 7 1987]

    Also,
    “biblical theology reminds the systamatician that the Bible is more than a repository of things to know. If our theological labors are to provide direction for walking in the way of truth, they need to do more than merely describe the world. They must also generate an identity for those who are called to live the life of faith within the world. This is one of the particular advantages of story over other forms of discourse. Story seeks to depict not merely a way of SEEING the world, but also a way of BEING within it.” [Dr. Michael Williams 'Systematic Theology as a Biblical Discipline, Presbyterion,...not sure of the issue number]

    Each approach has its dangers and potential pitfalls, but it does not seem very wise to exalt one at the exclusion of the other. Each is uplifted and supported by being incorporated with the other. To split them would be a false dichotomy. Rather than opposing one another, each encourages the other.

  13. tg says:

    I think the thing to be emphasized is that a proper Biblical/Narrative theology necessitates a proper Systematic Theology to truly understand the fullness of God’s revealed Word. However, one does have to admit that Systematic theology has taken a back seat to Narrative theology in recent years, as illustrated by the success of books such as “The Drama of Doctrine” by Van Hoozer. Even Wright’s “New Perspectives on Paul” smacks of over-emphasizing Narrative theology to the detriment of Systematic theology, in that Wright’s arguments hinge the various ways Christ’s atonement for sin is presented in the narrative, rather than in established, historical doctrine. This leads to the conclusion that the present push towards an emphasis on Narrative theology does not stem from a past imbalance between the two, but rather a reaction against the established, historical doctrine found in a proper Systematic theology. It can even be said that this parallels the current attempts to reject or revise the accepted creeds and catechisms of the faith.

  14. RFT says:

    TG, well said. Drew, I think the point is that it is well nigh difficult to see how the narrative alone or even primarily can carry the mail. To look at Helm again, he gives a good example in analysis 20:

    o illustrate. A narrative-style study of the Gospel narratives may lead us to the reasonable conclusion that Jesus did not sin. From this we may justifiably conclude: ‘Jesus is sinless’ is true. Will that do, for dogmatic purposes? No, it will not. Crucially will not. For there was a time when it was true that ‘Adam is sinless’, but then he sinned, bringing death into the world and all our woe. If as a result of historical investigation we come to the conclusion that Jesus is sinless, this is indeed a striking conclusion, but it is dogmatically as weak as water. As weak as water even if we are able to conclude, on historical grounds that (unlike Adam) Jesus was always sinless.

    Look at it this way. To say that Jesus was in fact sinless, that he never in fact sinned, is to make a statement about the actual world, the world of the historian. But it does not answer the question, Could Jesus have sinned? An account of what actually happened cannot by itself answer that question, for it deals only with what is in fact the case, not what could be. It is quite consistent with the de facto sinlessness of Jesus that he could have become sinful. Although he did not in fact sin, yet perhaps if he had been subject to more temptation, or have been less on his guard, or…then he would have sinned.

    Christian dogma, in this case the Christian dogma of the person of Christ, requires us to say more than what is the case. We need to be able to say what could and could not be the case. And the classical dogma of Christ states that it is impossible for Christ to have sinned. Hence the need to talk not only of Jesus’s being without sin or even of his sinlessness, but of his necessary sinlessness. In other words we need to be able to talk about natures. Jesus’ divine nature was such that he could not sin.

    Of course ‘Christ did not in fact sin’ (as a statement about this world) is compatible or consistent with the dogma of Christ’s necessary sinlessness, but it does not entail it. It is substantially weaker than it. It falls far short of it. The historical verdict from examining the narratives may be consistent with Christ’s necessary sinlessness, but it does not deliver it to us.

    Also TG, check out Helm on down (analysis 18, etc.) as he does an excellent job of interacting with Vanhoozer and the drama doctrine.

  15. Drew Wilkins says:

    Yet nonetheless, God gave his story and left the systematics to his people. Each is a right and good study, but while the historical narratives of Scripture are able to stand without man’s dogmatic studies, the reverse cannot be said. In this sense, I would have to say that the narrative not only carries the mail, but even delivers it to be studied and reflected on by its recipients.

    TG – I would refer you once more to the above Warfield quote on the relation between Systematic and Bibilical Theology. Again, I think it is a misconception to view one as being a rival to the other. If one is done properly then it will yield nothing but good fruit in it’s counterpart. If we are to truly delight in one, then we will also delight in the other. This holds each accountable to the other, but does so in such a way that neither will have the desire (nor the ability) to undermine the other.

  16. tg says:

    I think you are misunderstanding my point Drew. I was not setting them up as competitors, but rather one being the product of the other. As I said, a proper Biblical/Narrative theology necessitates a proper Systematic theology, but also that a proper Systematic theology draws on the whole of the narrative. In turning to Reymond, he says, “systematic theology is that methodological study of the Bible that views the Holy Scriptures as a completed revelation, in distinction from the disciplines of OT, NT, and biblical theology, which approach the Sciptures as an unfolding revelation.” In that light, everything that we understand about Christianity is understood in light of a proper Systematic theology, which then in turn allows us to understand the narrative properly. If we do not understand, at some basic level, aspects of the Trinity, the OT would seem quite seperate from the NT when it speaks of the Holy Spirit or Christ as equally divine as the Father. If we do not understand that Systematic doctrine of the Trinity, the narrative looses meaning because of its apparent contradictory manner. So, we must understand the Scriptures systematically, at some level, before we can understand and see the full import of the narrative, not only because that is what a closed canon demands, as Reymond points out, but also because God-given logic and reason require it. Again, this does not position Systematics against Biblical theology, but merely reinforces the premise that a proper Biblical theology necessitates a proper Systematic Theology, and that a proper Systematic theology cannot develop apart from the whole of the narrative.

    I am emphasizing this because systematics has fallen so far out of favor because of a desire to be free from another’s authority regarding spiritual matters. The very idea of a systematic theology is antithetical to the post-modern mind, because it involves a learned individual appealing to absolute Truth. This notion of accesible truth, which thus can by systematized and also catechized goes against the backbone of post-modernism, which holds that each individual interprets truth for herself/himself. It is for this reason that narrative theology has taken such a lofty place in today’s church, because by nature, a narrative is something that can be seen and interpreted through an individual’s experience, and thus becoming relavent to that individual, but relative to everyone else. And so, one must return to the premise that a proper Biblical theology necessitates a proper Systematic theology, because systematics establishes the tracks, or guard rails across which we may not safely go theologically.

  17. RFT says:

    Drew, I don’t think I nor others are saying that biblical theology is a problem. We need to clearly define terms. Narrative and story are quite loaded terms. For instance, in Why We’re Not Emergent (ch. 3) the authors write:

    Why We’re Not Emergent Chapter Three

    Why We Are Not Emergent

    The third chapter of Why We’re Not Emergent is titled Bible: Why I Love the Person and Propositions of Jesus. This chapter is a sturdy critique of the postmodern hermeneutic employed and celebrated by Emergent aficionados such as Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, and Doug Pagitt. These four men, and their many followers, have discarded traditional terms, such as: authority, infallibility, inerrancy, revelation, objective, absolute, and literal. Also discarded, along with the terms themselves, is the rich and historic theology towards which the terms point. The author of chapter three also cites the fact that postmodern emergent types also “bemoan the fact that evangelicals, as they see it, employ the Bible as an answer book, scouring it like a phone book or encyclopedia or legal constitution for rules, regulations, and timeless truths” (70). This is an interesting chapter, indeed.
    The Bible: It’s More than a Book; It’s Testimony!

    A quick trip through the pomo wing of the blogosphere will reveal much as concerns the emergent understanding and approach to the Bible. The Bible, in this sphere, is unarguably loved. It is a very important aspect of the emergent expression, without doubt. No one can say that emergents don’t appreciate the Bible, but no one can say it is their authority either. Therein lies a very formidable problem for the pomo Christian, and it, ironically has everything to do with story.

    Why is it – the problem – ironic? Well, simply, because the very thing pointed to as priority by so many emergents – narrative/story – is compromised beyond recognition by a low view of the Bible. A low view of the Bible compromises the contents in a way that ultimately renders the content itself less important than the content of real-time experience. Real time experience estranged from the content – the story – has no authority or foundation what-so-ever. The result is similar to that of religious liberals and/or religious humanists/secularists. “Christianity” is not Christianity at all, but a secularized and Western expression of spiritual philosophy decorated with choice Christian vocabulary recklessly ripped from its original context and appropriated at will. It almost looks like the real thing, but unfortunately it is nothing more than a thin, secular philosophy expressed with meaningless Christian terms. Meanwhile, emergents proclaim a high appreciation for narrative or story. Really?

    We need to be careful to define what we are talking about. Got to go for now, more later.

  18. Nathan Reddick says:

    Tom, your comment in this thread yesterday was impeccably written and argued. All I can say is, Amen!

    Les, “Why We’re Not Emergent” is one of the most fair and thorough treatments of the movement I’ve read to date. Any honest reading of it will reveal the author’s attempt to accurately represent the leaders of the movement (using many quotes) and only then do they expose error. A recently released book that I would like to pick up, which looks just as good, is entitled “Reforming or Conforming: Post-Conservative Evangelicals and the Emerging Church”.

    http://www.wtsbooks.com/product-exec/product_id/5879/nm/Reforming_or_Conforming_Post_Conservative_Evangelicals_and_the_Emerging_Church_Paperback_/?utm_source=lkeister&utm_medium=lkeister

  19. Wes says:

    Interesting discussion guys…just a few thoughts.

    I think Helm misses the boat regarding Vanhoozer and does not understand his project and the nature of The Drama of Doctrine. Rather than moving away from systematic theology, Vanhoozer is trying to connect systematic theology to Scripture and make is truly relevant to daily life. I think it is a wonderful project, and I would caution you against interacting with Vanhoozer without having read and struggled with the book. I am considering beginning a serious of posts on the Drama of Doctrine on my blog, so I welcome your interaction.

    I agree that both biblical theology and systematic theology are needed disciplines. That is why I am so excited about movements to reconcile these two disciplines, a movement that is exhibited in the work of Michael Horton is his book Covenant and Eschatology: The Divine Drama, Vanhoozer’s book The Drama of Doctrine (also keep your eye out for his forthcoming book on the Trinity from Cambridge U Press!), and professors at Covenant Seminary such as Michael Williams and our own Robert Peterson (see his book on Divine Election that weaves together biblical and systematic theology).

  20. Wes says:

    I totally agree that many Emergent folks exhibit a narrative theology gone wild! The critiques are definitely warranted.

    But that is why we should be all the more ready and willing to produce biblical theologies that are faithful to Scripture. And for this, we have such a wonderful tradition, especially with those Dutch theologians! If you ain’t Dutch, you ain’t much! :-) Just kidding, but seriously, if you haven’t read Ridderbos or Vos, you’re in for a treat!

  21. Nathan Reddick says:

    Wes said:

    “Rather than moving away from systematic theology, Vanhoozer is trying to connect systematic theology to Scripture and make is (sic) truly relevant to daily life.”

    Wes, if what you say here is true, can you help me understand why a lot of folks who promote Vanhoozer’s book in one breath are often the same ones who, with the next breath, say that Systematic Theology is an antiquated and overly dogmatized hermeneutical approach compared to narrative theology? I’m not saying you’ve said this, but I’ve met people who have.

    Also, do you see any differences between the currently emerging take of narrative theology and Vos’ Biblical Theology?

  22. tg says:

    I think it unfair to say that Helm “missed the boat regarding Vanhoozer”. In reading Helm’s critigue of Vanhoozer (I’ll admit, I have not read “The Drama of Doctrine” in its entirety because I failed to connect
    with his primary thesis due to my non-dramatic background, more on that later), he seems to really hit the nail on the head as to Vanhoozer’s usefulness: it is a metaphor that attempts to elucidate the Bible and Christ’s act of redemption, albeit, one that is weaker than the language/metaphors used in Scritpure, and one that sufficiently muddies the waters more than it makes them clear. Helm does not totally discount Vanhoozer, but merely points out, as could be said of many other authors, that he drums up a long, tortuous thesis about a principle already clear and understandable.

    I find Helm’s critique on tense especially helpful when considering Vanhoozer’s value. We are not “engaging in the drama of Redemption”, for that “drama” was already played out on the Cross and in God’s work in all believers’ hearts.

    If, as Helm does allow, Vanhoozer is strictly speaking of sanctification, then perhaps the metaphor of drama is not appropriate because it connotes acting, or in other words, hypocrisy. The Pharisees were superb actors, in that their outer actions or character did not truly reflect their inner character. As Helm points out, the metaphors in Scripture of sanctification being an arduous journey or struggle are sufficient and perspicuous enough for all, for they are all things that one can relate to. Which brings me back to my failure to connect with Vanhoozer.

    His metaphor, implicitly, requires some prior participation or understanding of dramatic theory/practice for the reader to ingest and assent to what he is saying. Now, that is not to say his metaphor is beyond the grasp of the non-dramatic, for I certainly was able to “grasp” the conclusions he was making, but the applicability of the metaphor is certainly weak.

  23. RFT says:

    Yet nonetheless, God gave his story and left the systematics to his people. Each is a right and good study, but while the historical narratives of Scripture are able to stand without man’s dogmatic studies, the reverse cannot be said. In this sense, I would have to say that the narrative not only carries the mail, but even delivers it to be studied and reflected on by its recipients.

    Vos on Biblical Theology:

    There is no difference in that one [of the two disciplines] would be more closely bound to the Scriptures than the other. In this they are wholly alike. Nor does the difference lie in this that the one transforms the biblical material, whereas the other would leave it unmodified. Both equally make the truth deposited in the Bible undergo a transformation: but the difference arises from the fact that the principle by which the transformation is effected differs in each case. In Biblical Theology this principle is one of historical, in Systematic Theology it is one of logical construction. Biblical Theology draws a line of development. Systematic Theology draws a circle.

    Vos would disagree Drew. Systematics are not “people” produced but are from the scriptures themselves as Vos rightly points out.

    Poythress on Vos on Biblical Theology:

    Vos does tacitly use input from systematic theology in his formulation of the character of the discipline of biblical theology. He requires above all that biblical theology work with a biblically grounded doctrine of special revelation and with a conviction about the divine authority of the Bible.18 He also draws on biblical teaching about the sovereignty of God and the unity of God’s plan of redemption. Vos does not explicitly point out that he is drawing on systematic theological doctrine, but he assumes that his readers will recognize what he is doing. That is, for the most part he presupposes rather than debates the use of orthodox theology as a foundation for biblical theology. That shows how integrated systematic theology is within Vos’s own methodology. There is no question for Vos that, as the newer discipline, biblical theology should build its investigatory framework using all the pertinent resources from centuries of systematic theology. Rightly conceived, biblical theology presupposes the central truths of Reformed systematic theology.

    As you can see, if Poythress is correct, Biblical theologian Vos sees his discipline dependent on systematic theology.

    That is not to say that the two should not be better co-joined. They should. But the trend has been to bash the systematics in favor of the biblical.

    The next excerpt is long enough for a post in iteslf but is necessary to make the point. Again Poythress:

    n these formulations the flow is all in the direction from biblical theology to systematic theology.25 Like Vos, Murray and Gaffin do presuppose a reverse flow, according to which biblical theology will develop its framework of investigation in harmony with systematic theology. But a danger arises, when this reverse flow is not affirmed explicitly, that scholars less respectful of systematic theology than Murray or Gaffin will fall back in the direction of Gabler’s idea of independent disciplines.26

    One may mention briefly a few of the pressures that beset us: (a) desire for a neutral methodology that would enable us to converse both with mainstream biblical scholarship and with the postmodern world; (b) suspicion of and consequent disrespect for classical systematic theology, which one may be tempted to view as outdated and unaware of modern issues; (c) desire to “follow the evidence where it leads,” while dispensing with the authority of the Bible; (d) temptation to think that the best theology would match biblical vocabulary (related to Barr’s critique).

    We may expand on point (a): scholars can try to conduct “biblical theology” either “neutrally” or outside or contrary to any investigatory framework provided by systematic theology. The danger is hardly imaginary. Among mainstream scholars one sees a lot of historical theological reflection conducted from within an ultimately rationalistic, autonomous framework.27

    And the attitude can infect evangelicals as well. Some years ago at one evangelical seminary, a professor was asked in class how his teachings about one NT writer could possibly be harmonized with other NT writings. He replied that he was a biblical theologian; that was not his concern. In other words, his biblical theological research could be conducted in independence not only of systematic theology but even of the authority of the rest of the NT.

    Many people within the scholarly guild may resist the idea that systematic theology should have influence on exegesis and biblical theology. For one thing, it threatens to introduce circularity into the entire theological process. Systematic theology is clearly dependent on exegesis. If exegesis in turn receives influence from systematic theology, the process goes in a circle. Therefore, so it is reasoned, for the sake of rigor and objectivity, the flow of reasoning should go in a one-way direction, from exegesis to biblical theological synthesis to systematic theological synthesis.

    In reply, one may point out that the alleged circle is in fact a spiral. Exegesis and biblical theology and systematic theology–and other disciplines–may fruitfully enrich one another, rather than resulting in stultification. In addition, Cornelius Van Til28 and more recently philosophical hermeneutics and postmodern reflections on the culture of knowledge have shown that “circularities” are inevitable for finite human beings. The rationalistic ideal of a purely one-way route to secure knowledge is an illusion that conceals its dependencies on unexamined assumptions (presuppositions). In particular, in the exegetical process one uses assumptions about the nature of language, the nature of history, and the presence or absence of God in the Bible.29

    The scholarly guild may also worry that influence from systematic theology reintroduces the alleged “religious biases” from which the Enlightenment sought to free us by following an “objective,” “scientific” methodology. But postmodernism has made people more alert to the fact that Enlightenment premises may be just as “biased” and just as confining as any traditional systematic theology. One must get one’s framework of assumptions–one’s presuppositions–from somewhere. If one does not get them from healthy, biblically grounded systematic theology, one will most likely get them from the spirit of the age, whether that be Enlightenment rationalism or postmodern relativism or historicism. The idea of systematic theology influencing biblical studies begins then to look much more attractive; in fact, it is the only sane approach that takes with seriousness the corrupting influence of hermeneutical assumptions rooted in human rebellion against God and desire for human autonomy.

    Now that is enough to chew on for today.

    See this article at http://www.frame-poythress.org/poythress_articles/2008Kinds.htm

  24. Wes says:

    Nathan, because they have misunderstood Vanhoozer, who is a professor of systematic theology.

    Tom, this is exactly how Vanhoozer gets misunderstood. He states several times is his book that playing our role in the drama of redemption is precisely the opposite of play-acting, it is becoming who we truly are in Christ. And yes, the decisive action has been accomplished in the life and work of Christ, but redemption is still happening every day, and God has gloriously allowed us to play a part in the advance of his kingdom. Just read Acts!

    Les, great to see some quotes from Vos. He was a pretty bright guy!

  25. tg says:

    One parting word. Wes, I am critical of Vanhoozer because of the people his line of thinking (note, I did not say specific thoughts) tends to attract, those who are of the more emergent/ing streak. This shows a bias I have against Vanhoozer, which is probably unfair. However, let me explain why I, and some others (probably) react the way we do to Vanhoozer. People from both sides of the theological spectrum make conclusions about what Vanhoozer says in his book. According to you, many of those who postulate, on either side, misunderstand Vanhoozer. Yet, when Vanhoozer’s proponents make their defense, it is almost always directed at those on the more conservative-end of the spectrum. This in turn begets more suspicion and the cycle continues.
    Also, I, and I am sure many others, prefer the utmost clarity in more contemporary works of theology. Now, that is not to say nuance cannot be appreciated, but merely if something is so easily misunderstood by a large group of learned individuals, it must not be very clear or beneficial in the first place. I am not saying either of those things are specifically true about Vanhoozer, but rather, those are the perceptions I have about his work.
    Perhaps someday I will approach Vanhoozer’s boook again, but by the time that occurs, it will most likely not be so en vogue, and the point of the new attempt would be moot.

  26. Wes says:

    I understand your perceptions, Tom, but I would encourage you to avoid making too many assumptions without interacting with the work yourself.

    I agree that Vanhoozer’s work can be hard to understand at times, and it will take awhile for his insights to trickle down to more practical application, but I still think his work has great value, and I hope to explore more in my own PhD studies.

    If you are interested, I am starting a series of summary posts on The Drama of Doctrine at Wilderness Wonderings (wesvanderlugt.wordpress.com), and I would welcome your interaction with the actual content of the book there.

  27. tg says:

    Just to clarify, I have interacted with the book, as I stated in one of my previous comments, just not the entirety of the work (ie-I read significant portions, but not the whole thing, and not linearly), because of lack of time.

  28. [...] to work through Dr. Robert Reymond’s systematic theology. Previous posts may be found here, here and [...]

Leave a Reply

Twitter

RSS Old Life Theological Society

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.